Comments on: Ogg objections http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/ Everything is broken Mon, 30 Aug 2010 09:33:38 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.0.1 By: Mans http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-1141 Mans Thu, 08 Jul 2010 14:03:14 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-1141 Matroska already replaced Ogg for all practical purposes about 6 years ago, and now that Google chose Matroska for their Webm thing, we can probably expect support for it in all major browsers. Matroska already replaced Ogg for all practical purposes about 6 years ago, and now that Google chose Matroska for their Webm thing, we can probably expect support for it in all major browsers.

]]> By: Mohsin http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-1140 Mohsin Thu, 08 Jul 2010 13:58:15 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-1140 Why not use Matroska instead of Ogg? As far as I can tell, Matroska avoids all the problems with Ogg, and is still open. If their are problems with Matroska, it should be relatively easy to develop a new format that fixes the problems. I think a lot of people don't seem to realize that Ogg is a container format and Theora and Vorbis are not bound to it at all. Container formats are much simpler to develop, and much easier to avoid patents with than audio or video codecs like Vorbis and Theora. Somebody should write patches for Firefox, Chrome, and common open source audio/video editors (if they don't already) to support Matroska. If Ogg really is that bad, being optimistic, I can imagine Matroska or another format basically replacing Ogg within ~6 months. Why not use Matroska instead of Ogg? As far as I can tell, Matroska avoids all the problems with Ogg, and is still open. If their are problems with Matroska, it should be relatively easy to develop a new format that fixes the problems.

I think a lot of people don’t seem to realize that Ogg is a container format and Theora and Vorbis are not bound to it at all.

Container formats are much simpler to develop, and much easier to avoid patents with than audio or video codecs like Vorbis and Theora.

Somebody should write patches for Firefox, Chrome, and common open source audio/video editors (if they don’t already) to support Matroska. If Ogg really is that bad, being optimistic, I can imagine Matroska or another format basically replacing Ogg within ~6 months.

]]> By: Mason http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-921 Mason Thu, 29 Apr 2010 09:17:13 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-921 One can read Monty's reply at http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/lj-pseudocut/o-response-1.html One can read Monty’s reply at
http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/lj-pseudocut/o-response-1.html

]]> By: Ogg vs World (as picked up from Slashdot) | Axant Tech Blog http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-916 Ogg vs World (as picked up from Slashdot) | Axant Tech Blog Wed, 28 Apr 2010 12:31:20 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-916 [...] had been discussed a lot lately. Having messed a bit with it and having felt the pain about dabbling with it and with [...] [...] had been discussed a lot lately. Having messed a bit with it and having felt the pain about dabbling with it and with [...]

]]> By: Hjalmar 007s it-blogg » Lite tankar om proprietära system http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-865 Hjalmar 007s it-blogg » Lite tankar om proprietära system Sun, 11 Apr 2010 18:35:17 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-865 [...] att höra samma liga som H.264-codecen i form av kvalitet, filstorlek och processoranvändning (1, 2). Nu har jag inte gjort några närmare undersökningar i detta ämne själv, delvis för att jag [...] [...] att höra samma liga som H.264-codecen i form av kvalitet, filstorlek och processoranvändning (1, 2). Nu har jag inte gjort några närmare undersökningar i detta ämne själv, delvis för att jag [...]

]]> By: T http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-843 T Mon, 05 Apr 2010 13:56:02 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-843 “For example what exactly is the problem created by the codec specific mappings when there is only 1 combination of audio and video codecs in widespread use on the web and implemented by the web browsers?” But that isn't the case, is it? Until recently, web browsers haven't implemented any video file support. Ogg+Theora playback is probably going to be implemented in Chrome, Mozilla and Opera while H.264 is going to be implemented in Chrome, Safari and IE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video#Browser_support). If Theora is going to be the only codec that will be supported for the Ogg container, doesn't that undermine developments like Dirac? “Also you are just plain wrong about with your last comment about ‘all these years’ and indexes – I was at an linux-conf au presentation 3.5 years ago where it and other similiar issues like seeking with the ogg format were discussed, so pls stop rewriting history.” So the indices were discussed 3.5 years ago and are still at draft stage? “For example what exactly is the problem created by the codec specific mappings when there is only 1 combination of audio and video codecs in widespread use on the web and implemented by the web browsers?”
But that isn’t the case, is it? Until recently, web browsers haven’t implemented any video file support. Ogg+Theora playback is probably going to be implemented in Chrome, Mozilla and Opera while H.264 is going to be implemented in Chrome, Safari and IE (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5_video#Browser_support). If Theora is going to be the only codec that will be supported for the Ogg container, doesn’t that undermine developments like Dirac?

“Also you are just plain wrong about with your last comment about ‘all these years’ and indexes – I was at an linux-conf au presentation 3.5 years ago where it and other similiar issues like seeking with the ogg format were discussed, so pls stop rewriting history.”
So the indices were discussed 3.5 years ago and are still at draft stage?

]]> By: Mans http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-838 Mans Sat, 03 Apr 2010 22:32:49 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-838 If you can't seek, an index will do you no good. If you can seek, you can go fetch the index wherever it is. There is no problem. If you can’t seek, an index will do you no good. If you can seek, you can go fetch the index wherever it is. There is no problem.

]]> By: Mans http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-837 Mans Sat, 03 Apr 2010 22:30:35 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-837 You are confusing MP4, the file format, with AVC, the video codec. I have yet to see any evidence or royalties being payable for use of the MP4 file format. You are confusing MP4, the file format, with AVC, the video codec. I have yet to see any evidence or royalties being payable for use of the MP4 file format.

]]> By: Maks http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-794 Maks Fri, 02 Apr 2010 11:39:58 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-794 As a previous commenter pointed out, you don't provide a single comparison of ogg with another container on a like for like basis. As it is all you end up doing is involuntarily providing ammunition to incompetent pundits like John Gruber who can barely string 2 lines of perl together. Also why not discuss the technical trade offs involved in each point? Any engineer worth the name knows there is no ideal solution to any technical issue, only a balance of trade-offs and choosing among them based on your needs! For example what exactly is the problem created by the codec specific mappings when there is only 1 combination of audio and video codecs in widespread use on the web and implemented by the web browsers? Also you are just plain wrong about with your last comment about "all these years" and indexes - I was at an linux-conf au presentation 3.5 years ago where it and other similiar issues like seeking with the ogg format were discussed, so pls stop rewriting history. As a previous commenter pointed out, you don’t provide a single comparison of ogg with another container on a like for like basis.
As it is all you end up doing is involuntarily providing ammunition to incompetent pundits like John Gruber who can barely string 2 lines of perl together.

Also why not discuss the technical trade offs involved in each point? Any engineer worth the name knows there is no ideal solution to any technical issue, only a balance of trade-offs and choosing among them based on your needs!

For example what exactly is the problem created by the codec specific mappings when there is only 1 combination of audio and video codecs in widespread use on the web and implemented by the web browsers?

Also you are just plain wrong about with your last comment about “all these years” and indexes – I was at an linux-conf au presentation 3.5 years ago where it and other similiar issues like seeking with the ogg format were discussed, so pls stop rewriting history.

]]> By: James http://hardwarebug.org/2010/03/03/ogg-objections/comment-page-1/#comment-790 James Thu, 01 Apr 2010 13:05:06 +0000 http://hardwarebug.org/?p=374#comment-790 Ogg sucks, film at 11. What about Theora+Vorbis in .mkv? Ogg sucks, film at 11. What about Theora+Vorbis in .mkv?

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